Gavin Webb - update
There is now a campaign website up to support Gavin Webb:
http://www.savethestokeone.com/
As far as I know, Gavin still has not been told what the exact charges against him are.
Frankly, this whole thing puts the party in a very bad light. The Liberals were often the home of libertarians, some more radical than Gavin. Perhaps they have largely been airbrushed out of history, but they were there and were important members of the Liberal coalition.
If libertarians and radical liberals are no longer welcome in the Liberal Democrats then perhaps the critics who claim we are neither liberal or democratic are right and we’re just yet another Tory party, dedicated to preserving or increasing state power over the individual.
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June 3rd, 2008 at 12:08 pm
What nonsense
libertarians and radicals are welcome
This is a Stoke/North Staffordshire issue and your post betrays your lack of knowledge on the history, context or reality of the situation
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Given the comments from some people I get the impression that there are those who would like to drive us out of the party, and that includes some senior members of the party.
As to the situation, please enlighten us, even Gavin seems in the dark about what this is all about.
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:33 pm
As a radical liberal who normally diagrees with everything you say, Tristan (mainly because you are nothing of the sort) you are nonetheless spot on here. Gavin is a Liberal who may not be right on everything but does not deserve this.
June 4th, 2008 at 10:40 pm
Ed F states
libertarians and radicals are welcome
This is a Stoke/North Staffordshire issue and your post betrays your lack of knowledge on the history, context or reality of the situation
Maybe Ed F could enlighten us as to what he means ?
I don’t have an explicit objection to making the counter view accessible via the savethestokeone.com website but you need to remember that Gavin is firstly an elected councillor and secondly currently suspended in a process that will lead to expulsion unless the powers that be rule against his accusers. Who is to say that other libertarians will not be expelled in the wake of this. Surely it is more sensible to fight this suspension than rely on the unsubstantiated statements or Ed F whose vauge comments lead me to think that the opposite of what he says might be the case.
If we don’t fight this it will very soon be too late so I would encourage as many as possible to get on board with the campaign now.
The supporters of the campaign are Liberal Democrats with very long support for the party and will not see Gavin expelled without offering the maximum possible support.
Ed Joyce
http://www.savethestokeone.com
June 10th, 2008 at 11:30 am
I can offer only an outsider view on this particular case, but it reflects a constant concern at local levels which reflects on similar experiences I’ve seen in my area.
The whole episode marks a difficult challenge for the party which can be used to drive a wedge between us or to act as a uniting force which more clearly defines what our party stands for.
I think the main problem with Cllr Webb’s action is that he seems somewhat to have taken the initiative onto himself without drawing any distinction between his personal views and the collectively agreed position. All this heartache could easily have been prevented with a simple disclaimer to remove any ambiguation, but I fear for Cllr Webb in that he appears to have used and continue to use his office as validation for his right to speak out and as the basis of the authority for what he argues.
As a result I think he will lose his case on the technicalities of it, while remaining to feel justified.
The threat increases if he reacts with bad grace and feels aggrieved enough to seek some form of personal affirmation by turning himself into a martyr for his supposed cause - would this help him or the party? I don’t think so. On the other hand if he has a reserved view and takes any punishment on the chin (temporary suspension, perhaps?) he will set an example for how to maintain party unity while learning how to get his point across in a less disruptive manner.
Cllr Webb’s political career will be defined by his response to this matter - I hope he puts the collective needs first by offering contrition and a concilliatory gesture, because the alternative will provide evidence of an unbending narcissistic and authoritarian streak which will undermine the claims of coherent libertarianism through exposure of his personal incompatibility with liberalism.
It raises and will answer the question of whether libertarians are democratic…
June 10th, 2008 at 11:34 am
And indeed, if libertarians are radicals or extremists…
June 12th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
As far as I can tell Cllr Webb made it quite clear that this was all his personal view.
If he loses this case then it sends a signal that disagreeing with authority is frowned upon in the LibDems and that dissent will not be tolerated.
We still don’t know what the charges are, Cllr Webb has not yet been told, except that he stands accused of ‘bringing the party into disrepute’, something which this whole sorry saga does far more than him shooting his mouth off.
In answer to your question of whether libertarians are democratic - that depends what you mean. Democracy as we have now is in many ways incompatible with liberalism, let alone libertarianism. Then again, the freed market is the ultimate democratic institution, so libertarians are profoundly democratic then.
As for being radicals or extremists - we tend to be, but not in a negative manner.