Comments on: The oldest kibbutz is going capitalist http://www.eridu.org.uk/blog/2007/02/20/the-oldest-kibbutz-is-going-capitalist/ Liberalism and general burblings Sun, 07 Sep 2008 15:09:20 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Barry Stocker http://www.eridu.org.uk/blog/2007/02/20/the-oldest-kibbutz-is-going-capitalist/#comment-347 Barry Stocker Fri, 23 Feb 2007 17:56:53 +0000 http://www.eridu.org.uk/blog/2007/02/20/the-oldest-kibbutz-is-going-capitalist/#comment-347 The interesting thing here is the relation to a paper by the Libertarian political philosopher, Robert Nozick,'Who Would Choose Socialism'(collected in his book *Socratic Puzzles*). Nozick's Libertarianism includes the idea that under a night watchman state we should all be free to choose which kind of varied basic community to live in. The Kibbutz from this point of view is an acceptable basic community, so long as it follows the general precondition of allowing members to leave. Nozick suggests that in Israel about 10% choose to live in a Kibbutz, or similar community, which makes a very strong argument against state administered socialism, though there is nothing wrong with people choosing to form Kibbutz style socialist communities on a voluntary basis. An Israeli friend told me 10% is an enormous over estimate since the pre-1948 period when it was important as a frontier institution for those seeking to found the state of Israel. No need for anti-socialist triumphalism, but this story surely confirms that humans mostly need market based economic incentives to live together in tolerable communities. The interesting thing here is the relation to a paper by the Libertarian political philosopher, Robert Nozick,’Who Would Choose Socialism’(collected in his book *Socratic Puzzles*). Nozick’s Libertarianism includes the idea that under a night watchman state we should all be free to choose which kind of varied basic community to live in. The Kibbutz from this point of view is an acceptable basic community, so long as it follows the general precondition of allowing members to leave. Nozick suggests that in Israel about 10% choose to live in a Kibbutz, or similar community, which makes a very strong argument against state administered socialism, though there is nothing wrong with people choosing to form Kibbutz style socialist communities on a voluntary basis. An Israeli friend told me 10% is an enormous over estimate since the pre-1948 period when it was important as a frontier institution for those seeking to found the state of Israel. No need for anti-socialist triumphalism, but this story surely confirms that humans mostly need market based economic incentives to live together in tolerable communities.

]]> By: tristan http://www.eridu.org.uk/blog/2007/02/20/the-oldest-kibbutz-is-going-capitalist/#comment-323 tristan Wed, 21 Feb 2007 08:05:33 +0000 http://www.eridu.org.uk/blog/2007/02/20/the-oldest-kibbutz-is-going-capitalist/#comment-323 I've never had any experience of them, but from a liberal point of view I find them interesting. They're a group of people voluntarily coming together to live in a different way to other people. That's something liberalism supports- people having the freedom to live as they like (subject to the usual provisos) even if they're different from the usual social norms. I'm sure they don't always work like they're meant to, but that's part of liberalism too: the opportunity to try new things and discover whether they work or not - it obviously isn't working fully for this Kibbutz so they've democratically modified it. I’ve never had any experience of them, but from a liberal point of view I find them interesting. They’re a group of people voluntarily coming together to live in a different way to other people.
That’s something liberalism supports- people having the freedom to live as they like (subject to the usual provisos) even if they’re different from the usual social norms.

I’m sure they don’t always work like they’re meant to, but that’s part of liberalism too: the opportunity to try new things and discover whether they work or not - it obviously isn’t working fully for this Kibbutz so they’ve democratically modified it.

]]> By: Jo Christie-Smith http://www.eridu.org.uk/blog/2007/02/20/the-oldest-kibbutz-is-going-capitalist/#comment-319 Jo Christie-Smith Tue, 20 Feb 2007 17:18:33 +0000 http://www.eridu.org.uk/blog/2007/02/20/the-oldest-kibbutz-is-going-capitalist/#comment-319 Just wondered whether your interest in this story was because you had experience of Kibbutz? I volunteered on a kibbutz in the mid-nineties and didn't get much of a feeling of community..I have to admit! Just wondered whether your interest in this story was because you had experience of Kibbutz? I volunteered on a kibbutz in the mid-nineties and didn’t get much of a feeling of community..I have to admit!

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